The electric generator

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Vidura posted this 04 January 2021

In this thread we will post information about the involved principals of electric power generators. It is very important for our research to understand how Faraday's law of induction does work practically in such a machine. It is well known that there are several different constructions, some for AC, others , like the old dynamo machines for DC output. The latter don't have much practical applications nowadays, at it is mostly easier and cheaper to rectify the AC. We will now look at the principal of a common AC generator. In the following animation you can observe how the intensity of the output current is dependent on the magnetic flux relative to the position of the output-coil. Note the phase difference between the current I and flux ɸ.

This is due to the fact, that the  time rate of change Δɸ/Δt is at maximum at the moment of zero crossing of the flux, and thus the induced current is at the peak of the sine.

You might have noted, that in most images and animations on internet the magnets are shown static, with a coil rotating inside. This design was widely used in the dynamo machines, for DC a commutator with brushes was used in times where no semiconductor rectifiers were known. In modern versions of generators the output windings are generally on the stator, and an electromagnet powered thru brushes is rotating inside. The reason for this design is that the output power do not need to be connected by lossy brush contactors, only the relatively small amount of DC to build up the magnetic field of the rotor. Below a simplified drawing of such a generator:

It is important to note, that a generator when it is idling, without any load connected will produce virtually no resistance to the prime mover, which is spinning the shaft. The required force is limited only to overcome the friction and mechanical losses, vibration and so. Despite of this fact, the machine will output an EMF, seen as potential on the output windings.

The Influence of Lenz' law:

When a load is connected to the generator the following will happen: a current will flow in the output coils, and this current will produce a magnetic field in the stators ferromagnetic core. As ruled by Lenz' law, the polarity of this field will be such, that it's force opposes the movement of the rotor magnets. This happens as a symmetrical mutually opposed force-vector pair, and causes the rotor being slowed down, unless more mechanical force is applied to sustain its velocity.

And a second thing will happen: as result of the mutually opposing magnetic fields of rotor and stator, the magnetic flux  density will decrease cause of the cancelling effect, and a change of impedance of the output coils will occur.

All these factors together would produce a significant drop of voltage on the output. Therefore a compensation is needed, the voltage regulator. To keep the output voltage stable, this part will respond to variations due to different load conditions with a proportional adjustment of the current, and thus the field strength of the rotor magnets.

An important detail is that the power required to setup the  magnetic field of the rotor magnets is only a small fraction of the output power, and can thus easily be derived from it. Including at full load condition it is typically about 5% of the rated output power(design and parameter dependent).

The electromagnet:

This part is generally constructed with silicone steel laminates and magnetic wire(varnished copper). There are various different designs, with two, four or more magnetic poles, depending on the RPM specifics and output frequency of the generator.

A four pole version

 

Eventually I did repair works on generators of a few KW rated output, and handled these rotors. In the 5 KW range this part has a weight of above 15kg I guess, it is a massive piece of metal. We know that silicone steel saturates near 2 tesla, this means if the working flux strength at full load would be around 1 Tesla, with a safety margin of 50% below saturation.  This Electromagnet would have a magnetic field strength equivalent to a huge neo magnet of several kilos. The turns of the bobbin for the mentioned power range might by many hundreds, maybe approaching thousand turns, the typical applied voltage 80-100V at max. power. The current is regulated by the voltage regulator, as stated before.

The response to changing load conditions:

It is well understandable, that the electromagnet seen as an inductor, will have a considerable inductance, and thus a delayed response to any change of current flow. Anyone, who had used this kind of motor driven generators for work, will have experienced this delay as fluctuation of the output, when a significant load is connected or disconnected. If you watch this effect with attention,  you will see that the voltage drops immediately, as the flux is partially cancelled by the opposing "Lenz field". But the rotation of the rotor goes down moments later, due to the inertia of the heavy and fast spinning parts of the machine. At last, the engine responds to the velocity controller, and recovers the rated angular speed(frequency). When the load is disconnected, there is virtually no overshoot in the output voltage(luckily for the connected devices). The reason is that the voltage regulator will diminish the current in the electromagnets virtually immediately, nowadays by means of  fast semiconductors. In this situation the overshoot will be in frequency, until the (mechanical) speed control of the motor readjusts the RPM. 

The output coils and cores:

The output coils are wound inside the stator-core, much the same as the windings as an AC induction motor. The most simple version is the single phase, with two at 180° located coil sections, which are connected in series normally. The effective area Ae of each coil matches the area of the rotors magnet pole.

For the three phase generator there are six coils in the armature, but the same rotor with two magnetic poles(or more according the rated RPM) is spinning inside. The same as in the three phase induction motor the coils corresponding to each phase are mounted with an angle of 120° relative to the next pair. Parts of the coils are wound overlapping the next pair, in order to maintain the same Ae of the coils(not shown in the image below).

Question: Is the energy required to spin the shaft of the generator used transformed into electrical power?

Answer: No, only a small percentage needed to overcome the mechanical losses and produce the magnetic field changing in time is actually causing the electromagnetic induction.

So where do the huge amount of force (by fuels, wind, water….) going to?

Answer: It is used to fight itself in form of a symmetrically opposed force vector pair, rotor against stator , magnetic fields fighting against their counterpart, slowing down the prime mover when loaded.

Can it done in a different manner?

This is our job, I'm confident we can.

Vidura.

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raivope posted this 12 January 2021

Hi guys!

There is another way how energy is GENERATED.

Please have a look: https://naser.tech/

Especially the first introduction video at 4:40:

There is a device (black box) on the table and an antenna. In the black box there is allegedly a circuit having opposing coils and I am speculating that the antenna is connected to the middle coil.

You will get the ultra high frequency ionizing radiation (maybe not harmful) that relates to copper and electron bouncing inside atom wavelength. Basically - two coils stimulate the third and create the nanowavelength radiation that creates ionization.

Can this be a principle behind many of the devices?

Example: high voltage/freq Tesla systems where they charge metals in a vicinity.

Story behind the invention: as I speculate is this that wise men found the effect, patented information, but the stupid world did not understand the value of it and so, it looks like they made it public.

(And of course - download all the videos before the end of the world!)

Best Wishes,

Raivo

PS! An excerpt from the Joseph Cater's book "Awesome life force orgone": "Gravity effects are produced by a highly penetrating radiation in the electromagnetic spectrum. High frequency range is located between the lower portion of the infrared and the radar band. The frequency is approximately a trillion cycles per second and more precisely corresponding to wave lengths between .3 and 4,3 mm."
So - just think if you can create such things by modulation or naturally.
Hint - there were no roads before year 1000. Before that there were allegedly spaceships having electrogravity propulsion + some frequency stuff that electromagnetically eliminates gravity. They landed on flat-top sand pyramids that needed to be at least 20m high to not ground the ship's voltage to ground-water. There are such man-made pyramids everywhere. And water "roads" were used also, 110m apart as a standard.

Chris posted this 09 January 2021

My Friends,

A "Generator" and a Transformer both work on the basis of: Electromagnetic Induction

 

This Changing Magnetic Field is the Source, to "Generate" an E.M.F in another Coil. Here we show standard Induction, but think a little more broadly:

 

Thinking more broadly, ANY Coil, if the Coil Carry's a Current, we have a Magnetic Field. If the Current Changes in Amplitude over Time, the Magnetic Field Changes in Magnitude over Time also!

If a Coil has an Induced E.M.F, the Current will change as the E.M.F changes, di/dt and dΦB/dt are pretty much the same things, but only from a different point of view! This is why a Conventional Transformer works. di/dt is the Changing ( d ) Input Current ( i ) / the course of time ( dt ).

B and I are at Right Angles, Orthogonal, to each other, but I creates B.

The Aboveunity Member Calculator has a Calculator in there to show this: B = μnl

 

The Code:

L = ll;
N = ln;
k = lk;
I = li;

// Permeability of Free Space:
VacuumPermeability = (4 * Math.PI) * (Math.Pow(10, -7));

// The relative permeability of magnetic iron is around 200.
// k = 200;

// Relative Permeability:
RelativePermeability = k * Permeability;

// Turns:
// N = 100;

// Length in Meters:
// L = 0.01;

// Turn Density:
TurnDensity = N / L;

// Curent:
// I = 1.0;

// Magnetic Field:
B = RelativePermeability * TurnDensity * I;

// B = 2.513274122871835 Tesla = 25132.74122871835 gauss.
BTextBox.Text = Math.Round(B, 7).ToString();
GTextBox.Text = Math.Round((B * 10000), 7).ToString();

 

In this example, we see L1 on the Left, L2 on the right:

 

If L1, the Primary Coil, is Induced, a minimum Load will be required! Remember what Walt Rosenthal said:

The VTA "likes" to always see a minimum load of 25 watts

 

Using the above equations, we can get a pretty good idea what it takes to get pretty close to the Machines we have!

Once B is known: 1 - 10 Gauss, and the Time, 0 - 1 Second, then we can calculate the Turns on the other Coil, to get a given Voltage:

 

You can see, Our E.M.F is not sufficient! We need to change something to get to the desired E.M.F!

This example, of Electromagnetic induction, only varied from the Generator, due to the Rotational Velocity! Rotational Velocity is replaced by Magnetic Field Variation!

Best Wishes,

   Chris

leonel posted this 08 January 2021

Hi Vidura, 

I think that I did it already; Using a two-wire stepper motor (cw and ccw), connected to a dc motor and a load to each output of the coils of the stepper and each time when the load was put on it, the dc motor increased itself the speed and the amp was more low.laughing And of course ... the brightness of the bulbs was highercool

Chris posted this 07 January 2021

Atti is right!

If we take the above experiment:

 

If we split this into elements of Time and Motion, we see a much greater picture! Again, the left is where we are focusing.

 

The Arrow indicating Time and Motion. Three Vertical Lines in Red, indicate Minimum, or Zero E.M.F, and in between these lines, the two DC Components of the full, AC Waveform. The Center Vertical Line, the Longer one, indicates Magnet Top Dead Center above the Coil. Zero Volts here, not what most would expect!

A North Pole approaching the Coil, when loaded, Generates a North Pole Opposing the inbound Magnet, Magnetic Field Opposition! But, only if Current is Flowing in the Coil!

 

ACTION:

In this Experiment, the motion of the Magnet inbound to the Coil, creates another Opposing Magnetic Field also changing in Time. Magnetic Field Strength is equal and opposite minus losses, always losses.

 

Result:

Voltage is only Generated on Magnet Approach and Exit. The Concept of Flux Cutting, the closest Face of the Coil. The Voltage Amplitude, is a function of Magnet Velocity, and distance from the Coil. E.G: As the Magnet gets closer to the Coil, the Magnetic Field Density increases in proximity to the Coil! These elements are interlinked.

 

Best Wishes,

   Chris

Atti posted this 07 January 2021

It is worth doing this experiment your self to see this occur! 

  That's right.

Munny posted this 05 January 2021

Can it done in a different manner?

This is our job, I'm confident we can.

Vidura.

 

I see it possible Partnered Output Coils being implemented into a newly designed motor/generator and instead of an L1 input coil, we just use the shaft rotation as the stimulation.  I think the trick to making this successful will be timing.  The rotation must correspond with the "magnet slowly falling in the copper pipe" resonance.  In other words, the output current needs to flow during a specific angular sweep where the two coils oppose.  Once the linear current drop-off subsides, rotation primes/stimulates another cycle.  So it becomes a matter of mechanical design to produce the 10% duty cycle and maintain the sawtooth waveform.  Without the proper mechanical design, one would need the rotor to accelerate and decelerate constantly which would require overcoming a lot of inertia.  I envision some sort of pulse motor with very strange looking asymmetrical poles that allows the device to run at a constant speed.  A permanent magnet could act as the exciter where the counter reaction assists this magnet and actually propels the rotor shaft.

 

Overall, such an endeavor may prove to be an extremely useful tool in better understanding the POC method as well as providing a device that outputs both electrical and mechanical energy.

 

Thinking a little more about this, I can see such a device morphing into a pure magnet motor where large pieces of copper or aluminum carry very high currents.  In this mode, there would be no coils to speak of, just magnets and large, thick conductors.  This might actually be what Maummer Yildiz invented.  I wouldn't be surprised if a hall probe was placed next to his machine while running shows a very distinct sawtooth current waveform.

 

Chris posted this 04 January 2021

My Friends,

@Vidura, great thread, Thank You! A Supporting thread: Electrical Energy

In an Electrical "Generator", the Action, of the Rotor approaching, then hitting TDC, Top Dead Center, and moving away again, from the Stator, or Armature Assembly, is a critical aspect to study! On the Scope, observer Time and the movement of the Magnet from Left to Right. Of greatest interest is the image set on the left.

Ref: JLN - Jean Louis Naudin Website

 

A lot can be learnt here, notice the DC Component, as the Magnet approached the Coils Top Dead Center? Notice the Voltage goes Negative! Also after Top Dead Center? Notice the Voltage Goes Positive! The Two Combined is an AC Component.

It is worth doing this experiment your self to see this occur! The Sign of the Pole to Movement, is always Opposite!

This is: Electromagnetic Induction 

Best Wishes,

   Chris

deleted posted this 04 January 2021

It's an interesting phenomenon that induction occurs when the surface  inside the perimeter of the loop changes, and that the magnetic fields don't need to cut the wires.

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Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by a power obtainable at any point of the universe. This idea is not novel. Men have been led to it long ago by instinct or reason. It has been expressed in many ways, and in many places, in the history of old and new. We find it in the delightful myth of Antheus, who drives power from the earth; we find it among the subtle speculations of one of your splendid mathematicians, and in many hints and statements of thinkers of the present time. Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic? If static, our hopes are in vain; if kinetic - and this we know it is for certain - then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature.

Experiments With Alternate Currents Of High Potential And High Frequency (February 1892).

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