No pain, no gain

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electrondiger posted this 4 weeks ago

First warm welcom to everybody it is nice to be here, truly a

I opened new discusion so i can put on the forum exsperiments i will do or try to reprodce. I exspect that everybody who will read and got something on their mind will point out mistakes, sugestions and so on so we all can learn from my mistakes and advance to common goal.laughing

English is not my first language so please, look thru the fingers when you read my broken english.innocent

As i understand i have permison from chris to do this so when i sign up, so i hope there will not be eny problems.

1 Exsperiment: Mr. PREVA exsperiment.

I did this exsperiment 12 months ago and for this time it sited on the bench becose i was ocupied with other stuf.

I clear the dust and run it again with the proper resistors. Transformer i wound last year on plastic bobin and put in two E core ferite cores.

Elements used:

C1 10µF 63V
R1 2.2O 10W keramic
R2 2.2O 10W keramic
R3 0.1O 10W keramic
R4 0.1O 10W keramic
R5 0.1O 5W keramic
L1 175T 0.6mm
L2 88T 0.6mm

signal generator: jds6600

Input: 5 v sweep 0-14Mhz


scheme of the circuit

scheme of the circuit

I sweep frequency from 0-14Mhz so i can see curent over the 0.1ohm resistors how they change. When frequency changes two curents are changing with respect to each other. This shoud be 180 degre apart, but it isnt, it goes to 90 degres.


If i understand corectly, waweforms on the oscilocope shoud be 180 degre out of phase. My wawes move but not to 180 degre out of phase. Have enbody eny idea what is wrong.


What is the proper way to put videos on.Thank you wery mutch.

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electrondiger posted this 3 weeks ago

Hy, i changed the osciloscope leads and i got this. I think this is not right. So i think it is mesurment problem, perhaps you need to atach ground leads with the respect of flowing curent in mind, eny coments?

And the video of the whole thing:


I think if i change the osciloscope leads is wrong. But if i look the video. The jelow wawe is mesurment of curent on 156T coil and it is realy nice to see that is changing one time is low one time is high and again low.


Melendor posted this 3 weeks ago

Hello ~electrondiger

Welcome to the forum.
I am glad to see that you have some equipment ,you can do experiments with.

You can not change the leads as you want.
As you can see in the schematic, the GROUND leads ( 2 x Oscilloscope + 1 x Signal generator ) are on the negative side of the circuit.

Mr.Preva experiment is not OU.

You get in the best situation x2 the current that you put IN , but you get a voltage DROP.

Also the ground leads of the Oscilloscope must be aprox. in the same place.

The output of your signal generator is 0.02 A and your are trying to get 0.03 - 0.04 A....and such small current will be very very hard to notice.

The 180 out of phase is correct in your picture....but that is because you have changed the leads.

Also ,the experiment works also with pulsed DC...all you need is a N channel Mosfet.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

*Melendor the wizard

Vidura posted this 3 weeks ago

Hey fellow, Nice to see new members doing experiments. If I may suggest some things: If working with ferrite core the frequency is way to high, also the number of turns. To get LCR resonance with a 10uF cap we would expect a value of a few khz , for a better time constant of the inductor use around 10-20 turns approximately, so you will get better current values. Most ferrite core perform well in the lower khz range, rarely reaching the MHz range. Also replacing the load resistor by filament bulbs helps, for the visual observation. Hopefully this helps some. Vidura.

Chris posted this 3 weeks ago

Hey Electrondiger,

Welcome and thank you for sharing your experiments!

Melendor is correct, you have a ground loop here:


Effectively, shorting out one of the Resistors through your Ground Leads. If you follow the original circuit, this will solve the Ground Loop Problem:

scheme of the circuit



Vidura is also correct, your Input frequency is extremely high, this is far to high for this experiment.

We have tried to calculate the Resonant Frequency, but have not yet been entirely successful, we are close however. The closest equation I have used is to add the Inductances together, and then divide by two, so this would be:

16.6mH + 31.8mH = 48.4mH / 2 = 24.2mH.

2 x π x √ L x C = time in seconds.

2 x π x 0.0242H x 0.000015F = 0.0037855865583000144 Seconds.

1 / t = f = 1 / 0.0037855865583000144 = 263.075005981 Hz.


Zeta ( ζ ) is the Damping Factor, and plays a role here also.

It is good to see people working on this, making an effort to learn and experiment with some of the simplest experiments that the other forums completely ignore, to their detriment! Ignoring the simplest things is just that, Detrimental! That's why we are so far ahead, we are Light Years ahead of the other forums!

I hope this helps Electrondiger, with a little work and direction, we can get you on track.

Best Wishes,


electrondiger posted this 2 weeks ago

Hy guys,


thank you for your time and comments to me. I am wery gratful for your guidance. I suspected that resonant frequency is realy to high, but when i found multi of them i thot it is principle of harmonic.

1.) To high frewuency?

Yes it is,.... realy to high. This is the fact. Now i think that al the frequency witch i found are harmonic frequency perhaps.

I mesured inductance of two coils with RLC meter. This meter is china cheepie,.. so i dont now how mutch to trust thise numbers.

L1 175T 0.6mm  71.3mH, 1500qF
L2 88T 0.6mm    17.1mH, 790qF

I put osciloscope and signal generator to one coil ( L1 - 175T) and sweep frequency and i stop it realy fast, becose resonance response skyroket. Then i do it manualy. When i found resonant frequency of coil L1 (75T ch2-violet color) i turned on the L2,(88T ch1-yelov color) to se what is relationship betwen both.

Then i loked for resonance frequency on L2 and turn on the ch1 to look relatinship betwen them.

Fferite core is 3C94 and it is ok to 1mhz,if my memory serves me well. ( i buy it for thise reason)


hok it up to L1 175T 0.6mm


ch2 175T L1 violet in resonance at 300,050Khz


to confirm signal generator output


hok it up to L2 88t 0.6mm


ch1 88T L1 yelov in resonance at 170,050Khz


to confirm signal generator output

So here can we see resonant frequency of L1 and L2 and both relationship to the other coil which are not in resonance.


My question in my mind is as folows:

 -    if we need to have 180 degre of phase shift betwen both coils in transformer why we dont do it with:

               a: phase shifter ( perhaps it is to complicated and it cant hold high curents)

               b: special cable -  we take cable with isolation in whitch is teflon and hok it up as in picture 

            We take long cable, and cut it back so mutch that we get 180 degre out of phase on the osciloscope.

 -    The whole magic is to put two signal out of phasefor 180 degrees, yes? Becose they ad? This is curent. But my question is what is going on with voltage. If voltage of one coil is out of phase a lot then you dont get power? Aktiv power and this stuf. What is with this stuf then?

 -    If i understand corectly preva exsperiment is circulating for exsample 2.8A in and out of transformer but in transformer there is circulating axses of curent 5.1-2.8 =2.3. This 2.3 is directly dependent from phase shift 180, not big phase shift betwen voltage and curent in coil L1 and L2 ( aparent and real power). Is this corect.

 - i loked around to buy amplifier for this exsperiment, that i can amplify signal from signal generator. Sad thing is that i got offer for 4K euros for this amplifier. Problem is frequency dependent.... . So i loked for op amp and i found power op amps in range to 10 a or more powerful to 100a. But problem is that they are exspencive. When i loked frequency dependance, it goes like so more buck biger thefrequency band. Can i get some info what do you use for amplifing the signal from signal generator please.

 -  If i look this problems around frequency, input curent and voltage and specialy resonance response the only thing in my mind that can save my ass is go old school. With this i mean, buy a deep cycle acumulator, hok it up to tru sine inverter, huke it up to variac, hok it up to variable oil or vacum capacitor for high voltage and i have voltage regulated ac sinosuidal sorce with frequency regulation option becose of variable capacitor. Thise amplifiers are realy costly becose higher the frequency higher the buck you need.

I have some problems geting suplys is it like nobady going to work enywere, i dont now.

My apologies becose things are in delay, i need to buy some stuf and this is not easy eny more.

One more thing, when i loked for resonance frequency for L1 coil on ch2 175T when i go to 1kHz and i went belou this number to around 975Hz signal generator had a realy strange sound coming out of it, more i lower frequency more louder it became, so i stop going lower. What is this, some resonance frequency of some part in signal generator? 

Best wishes



electrondiger posted this 2 weeks ago

hy guys,

I soldered al together to eliminate aded inductance and capacitance from conecting wires.




Signal generator output setings.


I sweeped realy slow from 0 to 14MHz, and i heard sound coming from the transformer. I went manual by 10 Hz and started to hear noises from 500 Hz to about 2kHz. is it strange that curves on the osciloscope started to become zig zag if i get higher. Resonant frequency is 5.5Mhz where L1 175T ch1 yelow is smal and L2 88T ch2 violet is realy big. From 5KhZ to 1MHz are realy strange forms, i dont now what is this stuf, i get double yelow waweforms (like number 8) i dont now reflections mayby or standing wawes i dont now. I hoped to remove this stuf with soldering elements together. I raised voltage to 10 volt to better wiev the wawe forms too.

Best wishes


Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Hey Electrondiger,

That's excellent work, Thank You for sharing!

Best Wishes,


electrondiger posted this 2 weeks ago


ok, where do we go from here? Is eny angle of preva exsperiment witch can be seen or testet to learn a litle more from it, or is this the end. Eny sugestions. I am thinking to go with preva to main voltage,.... did enybody try this?

If i am onest i realy dont get it, it is yust there, this wawe form. Is enything i can do or try under preva esperiment chapter?


Best wishes

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Melendor posted this 2 weeks ago

Hi electrondiger. Mr preva to main voltage was done also by our member Wiswitii. He used a microwave capacitor and an isolation transformer. It doesn't matter what input power you use,because it will always be underunity. One bulb had more curent than other,and in the same time has more curent than the input curent. That waveform,180 out of phase will help you later in replicating Chris's device. One curent going left + one curent going right will crate a magnetic field that opposes the 2 waves at sea that slap one another. Good luck.

electrondiger posted this 2 weeks ago

Ok, i yust wont to now if i can try somthing else or difrent. 

Soo next exsperiment woud be Cris Device, where can i find it.

I cant run with you guys yet, if i cant even walk. I dont wont overunity in Preva, i yust wont to look it from difrent corners so i  get familiar with it. I stil dont now if some parameters infuence more or les on it.

But i am realy suprsed that, it worked out of resonance. And the most funy thing is, that when i got resonant condition or i am neer it always hear sound from windings. In preva i heard the sound out of resonance.

I will try Preva on main power or perhaps even higher, fey Kv i need to chek for equipment.

What is then the next step non iduction topic test or chris device( idont now about that, i didnt read it yet).

Thanks Melendor.

wow this conection is realy twichy.laughing

Melendor posted this 2 weeks ago


The next step is to build a gate driver , or buy a mosfet that can do  clean switching.
As Chris has said to other people, You DO NOT need High Voltage to do experiments.Start slow..

The basic idea is , you hit a big coil with a 5-10 Volts -DC pulse at 10%-20% duty  , and the big coil will resonante .
Every coil has its own resonant frequency.

Start with youtube, on Chris channel there are a lot of videos, 1 h long each.

It would be beneficial if you would watch them all , and HIT that Like button if you are already there.

I have also lots and lots to learn, but I help on the way as I can.

I wish you all the best.

*Melendor the wizard.

Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Hey Electrondiger,

I believe strongly in Free Will. So I try not to forcefully tell others what to do! Although I do try to straighten up the Bent Path that has been laid out in the past for obvious reasons.

If you follow the Above-Unity Tag, there are many devices here on this forum that are very easy and very cheap to replicate!

We will help you replicate the machines you choose to replicate, all we ask in return is you follow the guidance and advice given, here in these pages and in posts following. Some here are very advanced in this field, so listning to others is highly recommended.

Thank You for Sharing and we welcome you to our group, simply because you have shown enthusiam and dedication to your effort!

Best Wishes,


electrondiger posted this 2 weeks ago

Hy Chris and Melendor

i watched all the videos multiple times last year and all year around.

I read a lot in last _ _ years,... and if i understand corectly there is not only one way to make an omlet. I can think of fey ( plasma, manipulation of coil and capacitors, mechanical, earth magnetic fields and so on,..). But if i remember Bearden talked about stresing the space. I think it is posibly that if you take ac voltage of about 10Kv and rectified it and throw it in magneticaly queched spark gap it woud be on the right track as stress and rate of change is concerned. I dont now about the rest. It is realy interesting to read some papers of test where they use 100kv and if you look b2 bomber this plane uses also some sort of freaky voltage propulsion. I read some article while back.

I now, high curent and voltage are dangerus, i try it few times. Blast, smoke, elektricution,.. not funy, even in rain.

Ok, gate driver,.... is eny circuit plan on the forum. I saw in videos one box witch is conected to computer and you need programing skils to do it. This box is on the videos with the coils conected to it. I wound some coils and watched some stuf on osciloscope, but i didnt get far.

ok, i will work, i will lisen and i will build.

Free will is interesting concept and i like it, but i t think we loose it when we are born to some degre ( long story). Teacher came when the student is ready.

So,... i will ask again, what woud be the next logical corse to go on,from preva,... non induction coils or what. I dont now. Chris punch it,... i have bought 35kW transformer core last year, and one smaler to, i got few kilo of enamel wire and tape,...

Best Wishes


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Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Hi Electrondiger,

Hey, if you want to have a go: Chris's Non-Inductive Coil Experiment its easy, if one has done all the study, and cheap!

CaptianLoz's successfull replication Here.

Many others here have replicated, and all have gotten to different stages of success. Some here have self running machines!

Bucking Fields Pump Electrons, bigger the Magnetic Fields, in bucking configuration, the more output avaliable!

Input Current reduces as the Assisting Coil, POCTwo, Aids your Input! The assistance of this Magnetic Field changes the Input Coils Impedance as a function of the Field Strength.

All information is here in these pages, but we will here best as possible also, as long as you share and follow advice given.

Best Wishes,


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electrondiger posted this 2 weeks ago

Ok, thank you. Lec go.....

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scalarpotential posted this 2 weeks ago

Next step is a 3 coil setup of equal turns, of which the output coils are 2 coils, one CW and the other CCW wound then energie it with the primary coil.

Try this experiment too:

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Chris posted this 2 weeks ago

Interesting post Scalarpotential,

When you state:

Next step is a 3 coil setup of equal turns


No, this is not correct, Input Coil needs to be 0.25 the length of the Partnered Output Coils. This is if one wants to do this Experiment Correctly. I say this, for many reasons I outline here on this forum.

Here is a link to the post: leonelogb - first-diode-for-magnetic-fields


Some may see the two, each experiment, as the exact same experiment?

Best Wishes,


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scalarpotential posted this 2 weeks ago

Thanks, is it worthwhile to distill that thread?

Turns ratio of 1:2:2 or 1:4:4? 0.25 of the length of the output coils combined or length per each output coil? What is the reason for this ratio other than voltage amplification? Faster flux change? I'll look it up.

V=n*dphi/dt*di/dt -> V/n=dphi/dt

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Melendor posted this 2 weeks ago

Hello Scalarpotential.

It is easy to take in consideration the length of the wire. If you have the 20 m of wire for L2 and 20 m of wire for L3...than 1/4 of 20 is 5 meter. It was proven that around 1/4 as a trigger it always shows good results. After you wind the coil / turns on the C core,try to keep the leads as short as you can. We need those 20 meters of wire on the core....and not 18 meters on the core..and 2 meter as in a very very long leads outside the core. Good luck

electrondiger posted this 1 weeks ago

Hy Guys,..

i hope i can put my 2 cent of worth here,...


I have some questions too. So let's go...

If i understand corectly uder the 20.Khz is field and over 20kHz is wawe. What this mean, can sombody exsplain a litle bit.

If you look 1/4 wawe lenght you can see that all the wawe need to go from zero to max(z axis), is 1/4 of wawe lenght, (x axis). So the input coil shoud be 1/4 of the output coil, i think. How long shoud be the output coil. If we need shortest wires it shoud be 1/4 again. You divide speed of light by 4 and get a number. This number i think it need to be divided by some frequency and then we get lenght of output coil. Then we divide this lenght by four an get input coil lenght.

What is this with exasct lenghts,... i think this is it. But i have one more question. Wire is a wire,... if you put input and output wire side bs side in straight line it woud be the same i gues, i dont now. Lot of people fight about this stuf, years after years,....  What is conecting wire and so on. If i understand corectly the secret lies in the wire ends..... . If you put big diameter wire to smal diameter wire you get eco or some sort of reflections and so on i dont now how proper name is for this. And if we look realy close to some master work you will see that coils have big wires,... whitch are conected by some sort of metal clip witch hugs the big wire from the side not from the end. In my mind this mean that,... the end of the wire must be polished and straight so reflection can ocur. Not soldered and so on from the end.

I dont now more.

I think that you can get standing wawe in the wire if you polis ih and make conection to it from the side with proper metal things i dont now how they are caled. I look for them but i didnt find them.

So what are the wire diameter and wire lenghts and coil geometry? Where can i get this data.

Be safe.


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Chris posted this 1 weeks ago

Hey Electrondiger,

All good questions, many answers are here in these pages.

Antenna Theory seems to fit these machines very well. Using Harmonics / Subharmonics, and of course, the Wire Length.


The Whys and How's, well, in one post, its not an easy task to achieve, that's why I have so many threads and so many posts here on this Forum, trying to explain what I have learned, start here: Builders Guide to Aboveunity Machines

Your Input Coil is important, its the Prime Mover, it brings your Partnered Output Coils into Magnetic Resonance, and at this point, your Input is purely Reactive, nearly all you send into your Aboveunity Machine is returned back to your Input again. We have given many examples of this already.

Floyd Sweet told us this also:


Follow the facts, ignore all that can not be proven on the bench, because there was a huge amount of lies told! Many still choose to believe in the lies, for some very strange reason!

Best Wishes,


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electrondiger posted this 6 days ago

I agree.

I have vondered over the years, what woud hapen if you took 10 harmonic frequencys and conbined them so that they meet all in one point and direction? Pehaps this can be made with standing wawes too. I woud love to see dependance of eletric and magnetic fields from difrent phase angel betwen curent and voltage, i didnt find this enywere. Can sombody calculate this?

electrondiger posted this 4 days ago


So it seems i need to build some sort of switching system if i wish to continuethe exsperiments. I found on the forum some options and i have decided to build four channel switch from Chris which is based on the quadratron design. I found list of parts, sinks and pcb layout in gerber format. What i not have is type of mosfet and led there is note on the list (ideal). I think this is not a company, i checked it out. So i looked in different topic on the forum to see if i can find name or type of mosfet which was used or if there is some clue about it.

  • IRFZ46N mosfets exsist in two package types TO-220-3 and To262-3  so this wil not be the right
  • C2M0160120D mosfet is interesting  1  and   it is in package type TO-247-3 so this will not be the right either
  • Ok then i went to mouser online store and loked around for the  To-247ac package type mosfet
  • we now from picture on the forum that it need to be from infineon trenchstop advance isolation company, i looked on theirs internet site. I didnt find this type of mosfet package either. Perhaps it is old model.
  • we now that it must be N mosfet too, because it is more stable and  here i found them , there is 46 options for N type mosfet with package type TO-247AC. This is really nice.

If someone has some suggestion which one to chose i will appreciate the help.

Thank you very mutch.

Good luck

Chris posted this 4 days ago

Hi Electrondiger,

Some of our Forum Members do not have English as a first language.

Can you please make more effort to write clearly and with less slang and emojis. I find this hard to read and understand, so others will have a great deal more problems understanding your posts.

I am sure you understand, My Forum is a book and others read this information like a book, it is a Textbook of sorts, so writings that are a mess, make My Forum look like a mess, will not be tolerated!

It is my responsibility to make sure we keep the value of the content here first class. I am sure you understand.

Please ensure:

  • Posts are legible and readable.
  • Stay on Topic.
  • Serious Topics only.
  • Questions posted are on Topic.
  • Threads have related Content.
  • Less chat and more do.
  • Focused Content with Direction and meaning.


We are a Builders / Experimenters Forum, not a chat / entertainment forum! I am sure you get the idea?

If you follow our rules and our style you're more than welcome here, if not, then I will not allow content to be posted.

I hope you understand?

Best Wishes,



P.S: The title of this thread is also something that should be looked at! Short Descriptive Title would be very much more appreciated! "No pain, no gain" - gives us no information what so ever!

electrondiger posted this 3 days ago


I didnt think abbout the title when i opened new thread. I yust wrote somthing. I agre with all the stuf you wrote. So if you can change the title, i dont now how to do it. Perhaps it woud be the best option to delete this thread and move preva to preva thread. If you ask me this woud be for the best. Lec move Pictures and test the rest shoud be deleted with the thread al together. I dont now.

In the future i can post in the threads by the topic.

i will be gone for some time.

Rest of the questions i will adres to you as whitch exsperiment to do next and so on.

If i realy think it is realy bad to have one thread where is a lot of difrent topic in it.

So delete it, salvage what you think it is ok, and this is it.

As is concern "more do les talk",.. yeh,.. i am not ritch guy, but finding suplies is realy pain in the as, i cant get even one insulation coper wire eny more, in one hour in the store, like there is war outside. Eletronic scrap hunting can be a litel dangerous, i dont need fines from authorities, becose i open container of electronic somwere. I am not that desprete yet. 

This will not work, no mather the title of thread, it this is going further, you will have one thread with difrent exsperiment in it who will read this, nobady. Over the time it woud be like on the No, no,.. this thread must to go. Demolish it and piriod.

There must be some structure to the forum, not mix topic dumb liek on the OU.

Have a nice day. 

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Chris posted this 3 days ago

Hi Electrondiger,

Structure: Builders Guide to Aboveunity Machines

This is the big flashing link right there on the home page, and I post this link in every third or forth Post I make.

Best Wishes,


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Weeks High Earners:
The great Nikola Tesla:

Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by a power obtainable at any point of the universe. This idea is not novel. Men have been led to it long ago go by instinct or reason. It has been expressed in many ways, and in many places, in the history of old and new. We find it in the delightful myth of Antheus, who drives power from the earth; we find it among the subtle speculations of one of your splendid mathematicians, and in many hints and statements of thinkers of the present time. Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic? If static, our hopes are in vain; if kinetic - and this we know it is for certain - then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature.

Experiments With Alternate Currents Of High Potential And High Frequency (February 1892).