Heterodyne Power Generators

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  • Last Post 14 July 2018
Vince posted this 23 June 2018

Some years ago, during the late 1980's one Adam Trombley (a physicist) built, or for the sake of argument, claimed to have built a device that was COP > 50.  In fact he built more than one device.  The first was a closed (magnetic) circuit Homopolar Generator, and the second he describes as an oscillator.  Many have claimed that Trombley is a fraud.

What he claimed was that this second device combined two different electrical frequencies in an oscillator, or oscillators, and derived from that a third frequency (heterodyne) to which the load was connected.

Some, perhaps many, have claimed that Trombley was a fraud.  What few have done as far as I can find, is directly examine the devices themselves.  I would here like to address the second device.

Firstly, is it possible to build a device that employs heterodynes to produce electric power?  Yes, it is.   wiki/Heterodyne and freepatentsonline.com.

If it is possible, by what means would such a device not require as much power to run as that which it produces?  I believe Tesla's dual cored transformer offers the answer to that ((US patent no: 433,702) .  Tesla devised a means to alter the EMF / CEMF phase relationship between the primary and secondary coils in that patent.

Establishing causality has always been my favourite method of discovering exactly how something does what it does, or perhaps if it could do as claimed.  Discovering the 'actual' cause for the power loss in the primary winding, which coincides with the output power in a transformer was something I spent a lot of time on some time ago. 

Lenz's law does not in any way claim that electrical devices cannot output more power than they consume.  It simply establishes the fact that the magnetic field that arises in an electrical conductor when current 'changes' is always in opposition to that changing current.  It is the electrical equivalent of inertia in the physical/mechanical world.  For many years it has been utilized as a supposed proof that COP > 1 cannot ever be achieved.

Careful consideration of Lenz's law uncovers no such claim by Lenz, or his law.  The claim that it proves that COP > 1 is not possible is simply a derivation.  It is 'derived' from the fact that tightly coupled secondary coils in their current normal configuration cause a power loss in the primary circuit, and other examples.

Ernst Rutherford early in the twentieth century categorically stated that nuclear power was not only impossible, but that the very notion of it was 'moonshine'.  He was at the time the acknowledged world expert in nuclear physics.

So, what is the 'cause' of the power loss in commonly constructed transformers? 

Some might say it is the reduction of impedance in the primary circuit.  Yes, there certainly is a loss of impedance, but that is a symptom of something else.

Power is required to overcome that opposing magnetic field.  Some may point to that as the reason for the loss, but is it so?

If we apply Occam's Razor and thereby eliminate the secondary circuit for a moment, we have a simple inductor.  Does the changing current create a loss of power in the inductor?  Apparently not, and yet Lenz's law applies equally here as well.  However, as 'apparent' as it is,  it's not as simple as that might appear to be.  In fact, it's all about time.

During the rise in current (sinusoidal in this argument), power is 'converted' (for want of a better term) into magnetic energy and therefore momentarily lost from the circuit.  But, then the power in this sinusoidal current reaches it's peak and begins to subside.  What happens now?  The magnetic field will oppose that change too, as a reduction is also a change in current, is it not?  Lenz's law applies in both directions, current going up, or down. 

The current is the magnetic fields means of survival.  Without it, it ceases to exist, and it will fight that change all the way to it's death by converting part of itself back into current, all the way down.  If not for circuit losses (ohmic or otherwise) the current will continue to run forever as the magnetic field will keep it so.  Again, this is analogous to inertia, or kinetic energy as such. Am I in error?  I'm sure most, if not all of us, have observed this with inductors from time to time.

So what actually happens once we reintroduce our secondary circuit, (always with a load attached) ?  Is it Lentz's Law causing the loss in power?  No, it's not.  That might alarm some people, and others may at this point wish to beat me with a stick, if they have no firearm at hand.  However, please read on.

If we divide the AC cycle into parts, we can view (so to speak) what is actually occurring in a step by step manner.  Whipping out Occam's Razor, we can slice off one half of the cycle as it is the mirror image of the other and all this phenomena applies equally in both halves.  Twice per full cycle.

The current begins to rise(I get to choose the voltage sign at this point as I'm doing the writing).  As Lenz observed, a magnetic field begins to rise also and takes equivalent power from the circuit as it does.  The material of the core whether air or otherwise is of no consequence in this argument.  Now, as there is a changing magnetic field there is also an associated A vector field (circularly polarized E field) at 90° to that magnetic field.  (no math here, I'm lazy)

The secondary circuit is immersed in that A vector field, and as such a current begins to rise in reverse to the direction of current flow in the primary.  This gives rise to another 'independent' magnetic field in the secondary that is of opposite sign to that of the primary's magnetic field.  Here is where it gets interesting.

Remember that power is absorbed into that rising primary's magnetic field.  What is going to happen when the field from the secondary cancels it out in the core (in equivalence to the load of course, which determines the amount of current  that will actually flow in the secondary.  And yes, I am aware of superposition. Either way the result is the same) ?

What of the electric power that went into that primary's magnetic field that just got cancelled out?   How is it going to be returned on the reducing part of this half cycle?  It won't be.  Without going into the gory details the power/work is not returned as it is in a simple inductor.  Here is our 'cause' of power loss.  (Please note I am using 'power/work' as opposed to 'energy'.  They're not actually interchangeable in this case. If you disagree, please explain why.) 

The cancellation of that magnetic field, or portion thereof, will cause a drop in impedance in the primary circuit due to the fact that the magnetic field that impedes it's flow has been effectively reduced, so more current will run to try and re establish that magnetic field.  That extra current will be equivalent to the load.  A 1 to 1 relationship that closely resembles Newton's 'observations' in the physical/mechanical world.  It can no longer be returned to the circuit as it is in the simple inductor.

All of the above applies in the case where there is a 180° (or thereabouts) phase relationship between the closely coupled primary and secondary magnetic circuits in transformer cores.  And that is how they are made, and most will say that there is no other way.  However, is it true that there is no other way?  Nope, not at all.  But that is a (hushed tone here) secret to most.  It's not a secret to many of those here I believe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Vince posted this 23 June 2018


What if we alter that 180° relationship between the circuits?  What if we were to find a way to say, change it to 270° or 90°?  If the above is true, something different to what is normally observed in a standard transformer is likely to happen.  If we were to do that, and if what I've stated so far is actually correct, what would happen?

Putting the sines over each other and sliding one or the other left, or right so the the relationship is now not 180°, but in fact 90 or 270°, we no longer have our primary's field cancelled.  Again, in equivalence to the flow of current in the secondary.  It is during a part of the cycle, and then returned in another part.  Lenz hasn't been cancelled, and there is no need to try and do so.  In fact, if you can ever find a way to actually cancel Lenz, you won't have a magnetic field either.  (If I am wrong please explain it to me) But, the negative effects of the close coupling that are normally there, have been eliminated.  Physical effects, and electro-magnetics have many equivalences.  The image below is not mine, and I have no idea who's it actually is or I would give due credit to it's author.  But it suites the purpose of demonstrating the point.  I think the relationship in the image between the metal ring's magnetic field, and the AC circuit's field is actually out by 90°.  What do you think?

I say the metal ring will jump most strongly when the respective magnetic fields are phased at 180° to each other.

If you view the magneto-motive force vectors as power destructive, and power constructive at various locations the point is made entirely.  They are actually equivalent and can be viewed as field relationships within a transformer.

So, Tesla's dual core transformer mentioned above, with it's method of delaying the secondary fields response by 90° makes complete sense.  Does it not?  Tesla designed that dual core transformer in order to specifically achieve the phase relationship shown in the image below.  This has been successfully replicated, as I mentioned in my previous post.

But, what of Trombley?  How does all this apply in his device?  His heterodyne is another method of altering the phase relationship between the supply, and the load.  By making the output wave form a combination of more than one sine, he has altered the phase relationship between them.  Part of the heterodyne is power cancelling, and another power building with respect to the other sines, if they are viewed in partnership..

I evidently went over the 10,000 character limit by not realizing the number below the text input is words, not characters.  If something is missing please let me know so that I may correct it.

If I have made errors in my argument, or could have said all of this in a simpler way, please let me know so that I may correct that also.  Constructive criticism is most welcome.

Vidura posted this 23 June 2018

Detailed analysis of CEMF, Vince. Regarding the method of altering the transformer balance with heterodyne waveforms, I cant follow how it could be achieved to get a different pattern on the primary and secondary coils, But the final proof or disapprove would be on the bench certainly.

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Chris posted this 23 June 2018

Hey Vince, Great posts.

I think you will find we all agree, the point of this forum, this is our main topic.

I have said it before, Newton's Law: "For every Action there is an Equal and opposite Reaction"

As it stands, Newtons Law is incomplete, this must be extended to:

"For every Action there is an Equal and Opposite Reaction, and thus for every Reaction there is an Equal and Opposite Counter-Reaction"

 

Action, Reaction and Counter-Reaction.

 

Textbooks ignore Asymmetry when Nature shows both Symmetry and Asymmetry, this is a truly foolish approach to Science!  Three truly is the Magic Number!

If I may suggest, many Threads here on this forum have a lot of information and experiments showing this same topic. I think you will find, we are very much more advanced than milling out a few theories, as it sounds you are. Some here are very advanced in this field.

   Chris

 

Vince posted this 24 June 2018

Hi Vidura.  I can fully understand why it's not easy to see it at first.

If you combine two oscillations with different periods you get a (beat) frequency.  If you rectify, or filter the beat you get the wave form (dark trace) at the bottom part of the image.

If you then overlay that bottom 10hz sine over the ones at the top of the image you will find that the phase angle between them is indeterminate.  If you put in MMF vectors, as in the image above, you will see that they sum to zero.  

For practical purposes it is better to use frequencies as high as possible for any given arrangement.  The wider the difference between the final ouput period and the frequencies used to produce it, the smoother the final product will be.  The one below would be a little choppy without smoothing it as the source frequencies are not far removed from the final output period...

heterodyne

It has just occurred to me that it might not be that simple when using diodes to extract the heterodyne.  The current through the diodes needs to be accounted for in that case, and may well reflect a load back into the primary. However I haven't yet been able to establish if that is the case or not.  A low pass filter would be a different case altogether I believe and less likely to do so.

 

Vince posted this 24 June 2018

Thank you Chris. 

All here have differing experience with different aspects of what amounts, as you say, to the same thing.  By sharing each others knowledge and views a bigger picture gradually emerges that is far more complete than anyone can hope to achieve alone.   It's wonderful to discover a community that seem by and large to have one goal in mind, and are willing to pull together to achieve it.

I've not read all previous posts here yet but I've already discovered things I didn't know before, and  I am very grateful for that.  As I continue to go through previous posts and topics it is like an adventure I can experience, without even leaving my desk.  You have, and are doing an excellent job with this site Chris.  It is certainly a credit to you, in many ways.

 

 

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Vince posted this 13 July 2018

Personally I don't think either of them were frauds either Bob.  The man who tested DePalma's machine was Prof Robert Kinslow from Stanford if I remember correctly.  His report was on the internet quite a few years ago.  Trombley is a highly accomplished physicist and certainly not a man prone to  fantasy.

 

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Vince posted this 14 July 2018

Yep, that's him Bob.  And that is the report I read many years ago.  I don't know of  "Robert Nelson's mega-download".

To be perfectly frank, I have been trying to remember Kincheloe's name since you posted re DePalma days ago. Thank you.

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