L0stf0x's Self oscilating POC transformer

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  • Last Post 30 May 2020
L0stf0x posted this 08 May 2020

I am not sure That this is appropriate for this thread! I saw the remarkable video of Chris with the magnetic field diode! Remarkable test you made there Chris! I have no words!! Well done my friend!!

So I wanted to try an idea based on Chris test... but combining a reed switch and a magnet... 

Its a transformer with one primary and four secondaries ( 2 x POC style ).

Now the test as Chris did not succeed, because the core concentrate the field and passes from inside the diode coil, so air core needed for field diode to work correct.

But As I was playing I manage to get the leds on with <2μA. Before I make the video I had it at least one hour with current stable 0. Then I move the magnet a bit and it went to 1μA - 2μA. 

The leds are not fully bright but they are well on as you see at the video.

The voltage at battery is stuck to the same voltage (but the batteries are high capacity so this is normal).

What is not normal is that even I take the leds off the circuit or I have them on, the current is the same. They are not seen as a load somehow. And leds should consume some at least mAs .. But any way you tell me if its worth to examine it further ..

I have to go now but I will draw a schematic and get back later today..

 

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Jagau posted this 08 May 2020

Ho lostfox

Excellent, for my part it is appropriate 

I would like to see the diagram when you have time

thanks for sharing


Jagau

L0stf0x posted this 08 May 2020

Welcome Jagau! And this is the circuit... Dead simple.

Correction! the secondary's are not connected as POC are simple dual coils. But you can connect them as POC and try different connections. I will!

Capacitors may also be useful to tune coils.. Or if you make it from beginning, it will be good idea to use equal length wires (or 1/2 etc ) for all coils. 

later guys!

Jagau posted this 08 May 2020

Hi lostfox


Just to be sure the coil is on the magnet as in my photo ??

am i correct

jagau

 

L0stf0x posted this 08 May 2020

Not exactly, the magnet is very small at the opening... Where you point is the reed.. here

Here also are the spools in stl files for 3d printing. You can view them in any stl editor to see how they are..

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lBWTTR_-d1cW7-iztb2yn3xXrcApx-jJ

https://drive.google.com/open?id=125f7TPnR0vwFeVWt40oNUK7syLMsQulg

 

Wistiti posted this 09 May 2020

Hey my friend! I'm really happy to see you back ! Hope everything is fine on your side. Excellent work as usual it is been a while since I have play with Reed switch... On a side note I think the better place to talk about it is in your tread http://www.aboveunity.com/thread/split-positive-plasma-generator-bucking-coils-combination/?order=all#comment-926634b7-c832-4f01-8a03-aae401284598

I think it will be a great continuation of it.

Really happy to hear from you! Take care!

Augenblick posted this 09 May 2020

Chris, could we put l0stf0x's project under a section for self-oscillating or self-resonant devices?

l0stf0x, your device is inspiring in its "dead simple"-icity.

Your hybrid schematic is clear, creative and informative.

Perhaps you could elaborate:

  • at what frequency does this device self-oscillate
  • what type magnet is used
  • whether the reed switch deteriorates much during prolonged use
  • bucking vs non-bucking coil performance
  • number of windings
  • effects of increasing load, e.g., frequency shift
  • some waveform analysis
  • et al.

This may be a great proof-of-concept tool to develop. Chris has outlined what to look for, and how to test for it. I wish you well. Thank you for sharing.

-A-

Chris posted this 09 May 2020

Hey Augenblick,

Yeah I agree, needs its own Thread!

@L0stf0x, As always My Friend, Nice Work! Good to have you back with us!

Best wishes,

   Chris

L0stf0x posted this 09 May 2020

Thank you all my friends!!

I am sorry I am appearing and disappearing from the forum, making incomplete threads.. I always have so many things to do, you know how is life!
I wish I had time to read and post in every single thread. But is so difficult to do that!

Ok, lets see at the details that Augenblick (thank you) pointed out to check.

Questions:

a) at what frequency does this device self-oscillate
b) what type magnet is used
c) whether the reed switch deteriorates much during prolonged use
d) bucking vs non-bucking coil performance
e) number of windings
f) effects of increasing load, e.g., frequency shift
g) some waveform analysis

Answers:

a) It is jump up and down, between from 2.2khz to 3.1Khz depends of the reed you use.
Usually 20 mm long reeds work in the range of 1,5K to 2KHz. Smaller reeds work much higher, 7Khz 8Khz etc.

b) Magnet is a small neodymium flat disc magnet (the poles are on the two wide sides).
But as I discuss further down, any magnet will do as long as it triggers the reed switch.

c) I discuss it further down.. I believe reed will be good as new for many years as is..
No dark signs on plates, nor heat is present (the current passing it is very low).
Just a small cold plasma i guess.

d) This need testing.. I have some interesting combinations in mind..
I believe at the secondary side, the two middle (side by side) coils from the four should be in POC style.

e) I haven't count any turns from any coil. I should have but I haven't sorry guys. I winded the coils only by eye calculation.
I believe turns are not important at all. Ok if you need higher voltage at output etc, but this is not the point..
Because turns alter only voltage/current relations but in conclusion there is no actual benefit from that.(I discuss it further down)

f) With stable (stable distance from reed) magnet, there is a standard output at the secondaries,
No mater if you put more leds, they will be dimmed.. put one led, it will be bright. The input current doesn't change at all.
No change at frequency when leds are in circuit or not.
Like the LEDs are invisible to primary.

g) I am sorry I don't have proper oscillator yet to see what are the waveforms! I know is like walking blind.. But thats the way it is!

 

Some extra thoughts:

First of all I think I understand why μA plays up and down.

That is because of frequency change. Frequency also plays between 2khz and 4khz.

Why does that happen? I think this has to be the most important question...

I can give two possible explanations..

1) Is it the reed as a component part, that because it has physicaly moving parts keep change frequency? maybe, maybe not!
(I have seen stable frequency from reed at different past similar tests)

2) Is the unequal relation of coils? (not the turns, but the wire lengths) that produce parasitic harmonics? has to be that. I believe its the coils..
I think that primary act as RF transmitting antenna, and the output coils as receiving antennas and maybe echo repeaters.

Remember Don Smith's work.. he was keep telling that length
of wires of communicating coils need to be perfectly dividable.

I believe:
straight wire = antenna
coil = antenna that due to turns triggers differently the Ether and so it is capable of producing and magnetic field as well.
So core transfers the magnetic field and coils (as wires) transfer the RF power.
The correct combination/relation of those two maybe is the key.

What you think guys?


About the input current and coils:

Sometimes the minus sign instantly gets on while it shows 0 current, this means opposite way going current? Does BEMF feed back the battery?
And if yes, Does BEMF intense/strength has to do with the communicating ability of the coils?
So maybe there is an exchange of currents going in and going out from the battery and the sum of it is displayed.

So today and tomorrow because I have time to experiment with that, as I am waiting for Monday to buy some parts for my other project.
I will 3d print the spools again and make new coils.. I ll try to make all wire lengths related.
All secondaries to be equal and each one to be 1/4 the wire length of that of the length of primary.

The primary should be a coil suitable for the frequency range of reed. So no tunning capacitors will be needed.
So If anyone of you guys want to test it ...first find the primary's wire length and then divide by four to find the length of every secondary wire.

I know its not easy at all, to have equal wires. It is difficult!


About the magnet:

I am not happy with the magnet' s position, as it supress the normal work of the 2 close coils at its sides. and probably does harm or blocks the communication of the two core peaces.

I believe the 2 ferite core peaces should be closed/connected at secondaries side and open at primary side. Maybe I am wrong..
but I think this is the correct way.. testing needed.

In my opinion the reed will last for very very long time as long as the bias is low (magnet need to be weak not need to be strong).
Its use is just to trigger the reed. Nothing else.. Actually magnet is not wanted at all, as it acts negatively near the primary. But is inevitable to use it.
Without it you need to spent much more energy using transistor, mosfet, etc.
Keep the magnet small as possible or away as possible from transformer.. the stronger magnetic field the more current you need to spend on primary to grow opposite magnetic field to bypass magnet' s field.

So the magnet should not be where I have it... It should not interact with the core at all, I maybe wrong! I don't know yet.
it should be just above the reed, on primary's side..

Or if you extend with soft iron wire the terminals of reed far from transformer (left and right) and loop them on a magnet' s pole sides, (far from transformer) will be the best.

Here I made a video for you to show you details of the setup.

testing is on.. Cya all later!

Augenblick posted this 09 May 2020

l0stf0x, that is exciting data/info.

Yes, without a scope you'll have to navigate like the original experimenters of the past. But, they did it!

Can you purchase an old CRT scope from another hobbyist near you? They are inexpensive, still work fine, and if they are tube/valve driven, they are more tolerant to input overdrive (though caps/resistors can still be damaged).

Wires/Leads

Parallel or random, different length: can act as noise/signal/harmonic receivers/resonators.

Equal length, parallel: most common-mode-rejection. (Leads should be perpendicular to the coils.)

Too close to each other and they inductively oppose each other (Right-hand Rule applies). There is an old video somewhere of a 1 inch steel hairpin loop turning red hot and prying itself apart when high current passed through it. That's where I witnessed the physical affect/effects of the Right-Hand Rule firsthand.

If we think that transmission wire dressing is not an issue, consider that in the 1970s, Mogami designed a cable with a straight stranded wire core and spiraled stranded return/shield wrapped over a nylon sheath ... to reduce induction, noise, and lessen the effect of the earth's magnetic field ... on 20Hz-to-20KHz speaker cables. (see Mogami Neglex series)

The simplicity of this circuit invokes something that has been speaking to us from over a century ago.

Thank you!

-A-

L0stf0x posted this 30 May 2020

Augenblick thank you my friend. I hope I will get one new 4 channel oscilloscope soon.

Unfortunately, I personally don't know any person in my city that may have an oscilloscope or messing with electronics at all, all people I know are simple everyday people. I wish I had a person to help me.. I work always alone and that is very bad and time consuming. I cannot bother every time that I need help Chris or Wistiti to help me. I know they will be happy to help but I cannot bother my friends all the time. My help is this forum mostly and I guess opening a new thread for just 1 question is not appropriate. Maybe if Chris make a separate "fast questions" section in the future, I think it will be a great help.

Well!! your words about the effects of the Right-Hand Rule, born an idea to me for the next test.!!

Unfortunately, I have no time to continue with it right now. This setup was not part of my main project,... I did it because I had 2-3 days free, and it was an opportunity to test some things. I do different setups from time to time in silence, like everybody I guess, ... most of them is a failure. But because this had good results I decide to post it, thinking that it may help someone who sees it.

I will continue with this when I get free time again for sure. 

Thank you Augenblick!

 

Wistiti posted this 30 May 2020

L0stf0x, old friend! For sure you more than welcome to ask any questions.

As you I experiment time to time and only post when I found something new. This last year, I do not have much time to spare on experimenting... but I'm still following the forum and give my 2 cents time to time.

Your last comment about the extra coil with one end grounded intrigued me. I think It will be my next experience project.

Always a pleasure to hear from you!

Take care!

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