Homopolar Generator Myth

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Last Post 15 August 2019

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Chris posted this 07 August 2019 - Last edited 07 August 2019

This thread is for Vasile.

I urge all to do simple experiments, really important in the learning curve! Take NOTHING for granted, please!

Hello Chris,

Relating to the Homopolar generator, you wrote:

Some think the Homopolar Disk is an amazing intellectual uninvestigated apparatus that will save us all... I think it is the same as dropping a Magnet through a Closed Copper Tube.

Well if it's the same as moving a magnet relative to a copper tube, why doesn't the homopolar generator work when spining the magnet relative to the copper disk?

Hey Vasile,

A very good question!

I have to say, first, it does still work, depending on the configuration of the Magnets and the Disk...

However, some considerations need to be realised, the Disk, the Magnetic Field, one needs to do some serious research, learn some very basic fundamental concepts.

Questions to answer must be realised first:

What is the Disk - A Rotating Conductive Mass, full of Electrons, Protons, Neutrons and the odd Neutrino or two...
What is the Magnet, what's it doing to the Disk - Magnetic Field lines, from Pole to Pole in a typical situation, are being unevenly distributed, dragged, through the conductive area. What is this doing to the particles that have Charge?
What are the Charged Particles doing - Eddy Currents are NOT what we see if there is a Conductive Path, the Currents are very real, very directed!
The Conductive Circuit - What sort of Current is the Conductive Circuit seeing, is there anything special about this Current at all? No, it is standard E.M.F = Bvl, Flux Cutting Laws known for almost 200 Years now.

The list goes on, many fundamental Questions need to be asked, then need to be answered!

Look at what's happening:

Answer: It does still work!

The Flux, if the Flux is cutting the Conductor evenly across the path from the center of the Disk to the Outside, at Right Angles it will cause an E.M.F and if a Load is connected a Current will flow!

In the above video, at: 0.41 you can see the Pendulum. The exact same rules apply, moving Magnet, moving Conductor.

In this simple Experiment, you can see, Time Rate of Change of the Magnetic Field in the Proximity of a Conductor:

I hope this helps and also encourages Experiment to prove Facts!

Chris

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Chris posted this 08 August 2019 - Last edited 08 August 2019

Hey Vasile,

Excellent info, thank you for posting it.

The Glass Rod and Cat Fur experiment comes to mind. Charge is distributed relative to construction, or geometry and Electromagnetic Forces exhibited on the Charge with a Changing Time Constant. Your videos show exactly this!

As far as I understand, the Faraday Homopolar Generator is quite different than what was shown in the first video?

I unfortunately can not enter debate on the questions raised in the videos, as I just don't have time to do those sort of experiments to prove or disprove those sorts of questions.

I just cant, I am already full.

Chris

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Vidura posted this 08 August 2019 - Last edited 08 August 2019

Hello Friends,

really interesting the video, good material.

I just wanted to add my two cent's to this thread, as I think that this topic shows clearly some holes in conventional theory.

Here i put a link where three videoclips of a simple experiment can be watched: http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/homopolar.htm#generators

disc moving, magnet stationary
disc and magnet moving
disc stationary magnet moving.

Compare the induced EMF, this experiments have been performed also by a Russian researcher, posted some time ago by Aloha.

It was titled : is the magnetic field a property of the magnet? I think we should think about this: If the magnetic field is a property of the environment, caused by it's polarization by a magnet, would it be consistent with this results?

A good experiment would be to run such an experiment for a longer time , to test if the environment begins to spin as well , which would be reflected in the results. Compare with Harold Aspens experiment with the magnetic rotor and the energy required to speed it up.

Regards Vidura.

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Chris posted this 08 August 2019

My Friends,

Holes there are! Conventional Theory is incomplete, or even wrong in some areas.

I whole heartedly agree!

This is a great thread, I am more than happy to participate, and I would like to see this thread an active thread!

Proving or disproving the movement of Flux Lines is a huge task! Lets be honest, we would first need to prove the existence of the theorised Lines of Flux first... What if the Lines as we have theorised do not exist? What if the Lines we think of, are just a Density change in the Aether? E.G: No lines at all...

Chris

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Chris posted this 10 August 2019 - Last edited 10 August 2019

Hey Vasile,

I am sorry, my opinion of this experiment is very poor!

This video shows a very poor understanding of the Magnet, the Flux and the Copper Disk and the Terminals relative to the motion of the Disk to the Flux.

It truly, is not even Faraday's Homopolar Generator!

I am sorry, but this video is not conclusive and is not Faradays Homopolar "Generator" in my opinion!

What is Faraday's Homopolar Disk "Generator"

A River, if the River itself ( Land Mass ) were to move with the same velocity and in the same direction as the force of Gravity, relative to the Water mass, then the Water would not move relative to the River, they would both move together.

The video shows an experiment that proves nothing in regard to the Faraday Homopolar "Generator" as the Magnetic Field is not positioned the same as Faradays original design!

The only thing the video proves, is that bad experiment can make one look foolish if proof is postulated!

Chris

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Vasile posted this 11 August 2019 - Last edited 11 August 2019

hello Chris

The only thing the video proves, is that bad experiment can make one look foolish if proof is postulated!

I wouldn't be so harsh to disregard it just like that. It proves things. But that's just me.

All the best,

Vasile

Edit: I am so sorry, I accidentally deleted some of your post, my bad, doing things when not paying attention. Chris

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patrick1 posted this 11 August 2019

haha Chris nice comments buddy, i have a very high opinion of you.Chris i would love too do a skype interview for my channel, i havnt done one since stan deyo 3 years ago. - the problem is ofcourse, i feel i know less relativley about bucking coils, than i do about UFO;s

grins. mabee i could set it up so you could give me a grilling, - - go desk too desk, game set match, see if you can burn my resistance at a distance.......

i have 18 metric tonnes of components, but very little test gear ;-D

btw its roumored that Australia used too use a homo polar generator in one of our steel smelters. any comments ?

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Chris posted this 11 August 2019

I wouldn't be so harsh to disregard it just like that. It proves things. But that's just me.

All the best,

Vasile

Hey Vasile,

My friend, you are right!

One can learn from this experiment! What is it that one can learn? Lets take another look:

What are the facts:

The Magnet is a very powerful Neodymium Magnet, Magnetized through the side axis, the 12mm Axis.
The Copper Disk nearly completely covers the Magnets Pole.
The gap between the Magnet and Disk is no more than 12mm.
The Contacts on the Copper Disk is less than the Diameter of the Magnet.
Both the Magnet and the Copper Disk can turn.
Disk spinning: 2mV approx.
Disk Stationary: 0.002mV.
Both Magnet and Disk Spinning: 2mV approx.

When the disk is spinning, we get a voltage, but is this because the Magnet is present or not? Without seeing the Magnet removed, we will not know, unless we do our own experiments.

We know from Experiment and from experiments of Michael Faraday, that Flux Cutting requires a difference, ideally, one half the Conductor is cut by one pole. Without going into this too much, Charge can not be separated if there is no separation done and this requires somewhere for the separated Charge to go. So we must see this in the Homopolar "Generator" and we do see this in Faraday's original design!

However, we do not see this in the video.

In Faraday's "Generator" the Magnet is situated almost exactly in the path of the Conductors. No where else on the Disk is there any Magnetic Field except of that of the Earth which would be negligible because the Disk is up on its edge.

As the dis is turned, part of the disk near the contacts is always turning into a Magnetic Field from an area of no magnetic Field.

Thus this region of the Disk is Cutting the Magnetic Field.

This does not ever occur in the fore mentioned video. The 2mV recorded could be a Centrifugal effect rather than anything else.

Chris

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Vidura posted this 11 August 2019

Hey Friends, It is turning out nicely the thread, certainly we can and must continue learning. Evidently there are at least two variants of the device, regarding the magnets and the area exposed to the fields. I would suggest to continue to collect information available, if anyone has a suitable machine to experiment with it would be great. If I may: pay attention to the details in the videos, for example in the video clips you can view at the website which I posted the link: the magnets are bar magnets in radial direction , which would be at least similar to the original Faraday machine, the disc and the magnets are propelled by pulleys and a handle. You can see that spinning the disc a drag is produced on the magnets and they are spinning at almost the same velocity as the disk. In the other test the magnets bare spun and no drag on the disc is produced. Why? Note the meter is measuring voltage, so no current is drawn, no load at the disc. I honestly don't have a good explication for the moment, but I m eager to know more. Unfortunately time is limited to test Al the things I would like . Vidura

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patrick1 posted this 12 August 2019

Hi guys, - i cant find the AC Disc Generator or homopolar motor video by borderland science in 87, its a great video, but its been purged from youtube seemingly. - anyways il have too look through my archives for it. - but i recall they used a larger alloy disc, and square magnets which were attached too the outside of the disc, like numbers on the clock face... and about the number quantity..... they were able too generate an ac voltage measurable on their scope, which was likley terrible.... so i suspect they produced something closers t00 half a volt AC rather than 2mv... essentially it may well even have been a viable prototype...

i can search around for the video if you want, but i guess everyone has already seen it ?... it was a machine i considered building a few years ago, - but opted for linear motors instead, - and glad i did, - i have accumulated all the parts too make a 100kg~ 4cyl version. likey output is a few hp and COP 7-10 . based on all my tested and smaller versions. - still as usual -a working homopolar is prob better.... if it can be build and works as advertized.

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dummyload posted this 12 August 2019

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patrick1 posted this 12 August 2019

Thankyou. peter lindermann does always come with his particular variety of excitement.

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Vasile posted this 12 August 2019 - Last edited 12 August 2019

Hello,

"I am so sorry, I accidentally deleted some of your post, my bad, doing things when not paying attention. Chris"

You accidentally deleted some of my post? Exactly the part where I said that you have your oppinion and others have theirs? Wow, this is as close to dictatorship as it gets. That's low, really low. You finally showed your true face and no matter how much you try do hide it from others or from yourself, it will still be who you are.

I wish everyone an amazing life,
Vasile

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Chris posted this 12 August 2019 - Last edited 13 August 2019

Hey Vasile,

Take it how you like, you can go back and edit it if you wish. I made an apology and also left the statement of apology on your post.

I hit edit in thinking I hit quote. So again I am sorry - Accept it and move on, or not. Your Choice.

There is only a dictatorship here if you make one by breaking the rules.

Hello,

"I am so sorry, I accidentally deleted some of your post, my bad, doing things when not paying attention. Chris"

You accidentally deleted some of my post? Exactly the part where I said that you have your oppinion and others have theirs? Wow, this is as close to dictatorship as it gets. That's low, really low. You finally showed your true face and no matter how much you try do hide it from others or from yourself, it will still be who you are.

I wish everyone an amazing life,
Vasile

Perhaps, making a big deal about an honest mistake was not a wise thing to do on your part?

Chris

Admin

Chris posted this 15 August 2019

I can only guess Eric Dollard's tight shorts killed this thread?

Vidura posted this 15 August 2019

The homopolar generator which is being constructed at the Research School of Physical Sciences, Australian National University, Canberra, is a novel form of pulse generator in which energy is stored in a system of two contra-rotating steel flywheels, each 12 feet in diameter and weighing 40 tons. The flywheels rotate in an axial magnetic field so that they act as the armature of a homopolar generator, and are rapidly brought to rest when electrical energy is extracted in the form of a high current pulse. The machine was designed to power the orbital field coils of a 10 GeV proton synchrotron. However, with the development of alternative methods of accelerating protons to this energy the allied synchrotron project was abandoned, and it is now proposed to use the generator for other purposes; e. g. the study of plasm as. In this role it would have a stored energy of 500 x 10e6 joules, which is greater than that available from any existing capacitor bank, and would be capable of delivering a pulse lasting two seconds and reaching a peak current of 1. 6 x 10e6 amps. The open circuit voltage was 600 volts.

Source:
THE DESIGN OF BRUSHES FOR THE HOMOPOLAR
GENERATOR AT THE AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL UNIVERSITY
by
A. STEBBENS
H. WARD
(Morganite Carbon, Limited)
(Consultants to The Australian National University)
F irst Published: March, 1964 Re-issued: September, 1967
Publication EP-RR 18
Department of Engineering Physics Research School of Physical Sciences
THE AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL UNIVERSITY
Canberra, A.C.T. Australia

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Vidura posted this 15 August 2019

This post I made regarding the title of the thread, it seems to be myth that homopolar generators can only produce low voltage, evidently at high angular speed it rise to high levels. The other thing is that a strong drag slows down the 40ton rotors from 900to 200rpm in less than a second, so the statement of some research that no drag is produced is not true at least in this configuration, testing could be don if this changes when disk and magnets rotat together. Vidura.

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