Delayed conduction experiment

  • 209 Views
  • Last Post 5 weeks ago
cd_sharp posted this 17 April 2019

Hey, guys

I just thought to see what's the voltage over the additive POC if it's open circuit. This is the schema:

And the results set on x10 (the pink - A and light blue - B are the floating voltages of the ends of the additive POC with respect to ground) and the dark blue (set on 10 V/ division) is the A-B voltage over the coil. We can see it's too much for the Math function on my oscilloscope.

I also notice the timing. It's exactly after the input voltage was turned off.

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Chris posted this 17 April 2019

Hey CD,

Excellent very worth while experiments! Very nice to see simple experiments being shared that have great importance!

  • Why do the Coils Ring?
  • Why such a high Voltage?
  • Why do you see the same frequency ringing at switch on as switch off?
  • Why no ringing in the middle?
  • What's occurring inside the Core, is the Core Ringing like the Coils are?

If Voltage V = 10 Volts and the Resistance R = 10 Ohms then Current I will be 1 Ampere.

If V = 100 Volts then Current I will be 10 Amperes through the same Resistance R.

Be careful of your scope, over voltages can be damaging.

   Chris

 

cd_sharp posted this 18 April 2019

Hey, buddy

I think the additive POC coil rings because there is no impedance on it. I have seen the same ringing in the Akula lantern no 4 when tuned for RLC resonance. My guess is the capacitors in the probes are playing a role here.

It's a high voltage because the collapse of the magnetic field is very sharp.

It's the same frequency at switch on and at switch off because the RLC resonant frequency is constant, no matter what the change in magnetic field there is.

There is no ringing in the middle because the magnetic field enters the last part of the storage phase and it grows slower and slower. The change in time is small.

I think the core is ringing also, it's probably like a resonant cavity which reflects the wave back and forth.

I have the D.U.T. completely floating, the PSU is not grounded, so if I don't touch the open coil, I and the oscilloscope should be safe.

Please let me know any thougths, corrections and ideas. I'll be coming back to close the ends of the additive POC.

Thanks

  • Liked by
  • Chris
  • Vidura
cd_sharp posted this 19 April 2019

Hey, guys

This is the new setup:

I don't know how to add a varistor in Circuit Wizard, so I added D1 and D2 Zener diodes. I'm forcing the additive POC to always conduct such as to add the primary coil by using the D3 diode.

The pink - light blue calculates the dark blue trace. The voltage over the varistor seems to be high enough for conduction, but I did a frequency sweep and nothing noticeable happened.

The varistor is JVR14N470K.

The datasheet shows this graph:

I don't know what I understood wrong and I'm not sure the varistor conducts. Any ideas?

Thanks

Chris posted this 19 April 2019

Hey CD,

This is awesome! I am very impressed with this post! Thank You for sharing!

If I may suggest, remove the Diode, on the one Coil L3, make the circuit like this:

 

The Voltage on L3, when It reaches VC, or Break over Voltage, the device will conduct. If you don't reach the Conduction Voltage on the Coil, the device will not Conduct.

 

 

Remember what we talked about, Rise over Run, the Time it takes to Conduct is important:

 

 

So, the slope of the Voltage Increase on the Coil L3, from Zero Volts to VC, Conduction Voltage has a Time Constant. This Time Constant is important to the Triggering of Magnetic Resonance, this adjusts the Run Time because the Slope Increases with Frequency.

Some may term this Rise Time tR:

 

 

 

This is the Time the Voltage is "Generated", where the Magnetic Field starts Changing.

At Conduction, you have CLOSE to Zero Volts across the Coil L3 / TVS or MOV, because its Conducting, you have Current instead. You already know how to measure Current wink.

   Chris

  • Liked by
  • cd_sharp
  • Jagau
Vidura posted this 19 April 2019

hey cd , the varistor that you used is 460volts, this might be too high for your setup?

vidura

  • Liked by
  • Chris
cd_sharp posted this 19 April 2019

Hey, guys

Let me see if I understood correctly. @Chris, the slope needs to be as steep as possible. So, the maximum magnetic field must be collapsed as fast as possible. I guess this the device needs a bigger bulb.

@Vidura, where did you find that? For example, here I see "Varistor Uac/Udc= 30V/38V, Un= 47V", whatever Udc and Un mean.

Can you please explain what's the simbol of Vbr and Vc and how else they may be called from the picture below?

Thanks guys, lots of things to learn.

  • Liked by
  • Chris
Vidura posted this 19 April 2019

Hey cd, I'm sorry I confused the device with the k471 which is for mains voltage with a clamping voltage of 700 volts. Vwm would be the maximum working voltage (used as surge protector), Vbr the break down voltage, and Vc the clamping voltage, when the resistance becomes negligible. Sorry for my mistake.Vidura.

  • Liked by
  • cd_sharp
Chris posted this 19 April 2019

Hey CD,

The Frequency needs to be adjusted to find the right Slope.

Slope is Time dependant: the Run variable, because your MOV or TVS is a fixed Voltage: the Rise Variable

So the only thing you can adjust, is Run or Frequency in this case.

If I am reading correctly, your Voltages are too high, get a device that Clamps/Conducts at say 20 - 50 volts. These things are cheap.

WOW, those datasheets are the worst I have ever read! 

   Chris 

  • Liked by
  • cd_sharp
cd_sharp posted this 20 April 2019

Hey, Chris,

You're right. I can see here the clamping voltage is 93V. I'll try another model.

  • Liked by
  • Chris
Vidura posted this 20 April 2019

 
@CD.

To take into account: the MOV is basically a RESISTOR, a LOAD, although varying on applied voltage. In the case of the device that you used it means that at the nominal voltage only1mA of current will flow, gradually increasing until reaching the clamping voltage. in between this values the device will dissipate as any resistor. If you need a more abrupt switching the TVS diode or a switch might be better.

vidura

  • Liked by
  • Chris
  • cd_sharp
cd_sharp posted this 5 weeks ago

Hey, guys

I received the TVS diodes. I tried all of them on this circuit:

Here are the results using BZW 06-13 B , duty cycle 16%, frequency 250c/s:

Yellow is the input gate trace, dark blue is the voltage over the TVS.

From what I can tell, I reaches the Vbr during the input pulse, but never Vc. I did a full frequency sweep.

  • Liked by
  • Vidura

Please Support Us

All Visitors: since Nov 27 2018
Members Online:

No one online at the moment

The great Nikola Tesla:

Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by a power obtainable at any point of the universe. This idea is not novel. Men have been led to it long ago go by instinct or reason. It has been expressed in many ways, and in many places, in the history of old and new. We find it in the delightful myth of Antheus, who drives power from the earth; we find it among the subtle speculations of one of your splendid mathematicians, and in many hints and statements of thinkers of the present time. Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic? If static, our hopes are in vain; if kinetic - and this we know it is for certain - then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature.

Experiments With Alternate Currents Of High Potential And High Frequency (February 1892).

Weeks High Earners:
Your Support:

More than anything else, your contributions to this forum are most important! We are trying to actively get all visitors involved, but we do only have a few main contributors, which are very much appreciated! If you would like to see more pages with more detailed experiments and answers, perhaps a contribution of another type maybe possible:

Support Us (PayPal)

The content I am sharing is not only unique, but is changing the world as we know it! Please Support Us!

Support Us (Patreon)

Thank You So Much!

Close