Current and voltage sensing

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  • Last Post 15 June 2019
cd_sharp posted this 27 May 2019

Hi, my friends

Let me quote Floyd Sweet :

This wire is specially insulated, and over this insulation is wound a current feedback winding spirally traversing the total length of the coil conductor. Also a voltage winding of considerably smaller wire and more turns is also wound axially, traversing the total length of the coil conductor.

What is he talking about?

Could it be about the Rogowsky coil ?

The respective leads are brought out to terminals, and to these terminals is connected the output of the current and voltage sensing transformers.

What is Floyd Sweet doing with current and voltage sensing transformers?

We now have, when the current and voltage windings are excited, another set of fields virtually in quadrature with the fields (alternating) initiated by the load current flowing in the power phase coils.

What does "virtually in quadrature" mean? Like 90 degrees shift between the waves or like 2 coils physically orthogonal to each other?

The current and voltage initiating fields are in such a direction to either accelerate or decelerate the rate of flow of charges depending on the applied polarity and voltage amplitude.

This is about MrPreva / Reduced Impedance Effect .

My brain is on fire! Some experiments are needed.

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Chris posted this 27 May 2019

Hey CD,

Nice! If I may share my experience, because I have also been where you are right now and built machines, which were interesting, but no Energy Gains were seen. Not to say its not possible, just to say I didn't see any.

Spending days winding Coils may be a waste of time and money so if you want my advice I would not take that approach unless you feel you could learn more from it.

 

Problem:

Sometimes when unsure of something, we humans second guess ourselves and what we have been doing. Its a natural response.

 

Solution:

Stick to the facts!

 

You are right to get to here, in my opinion, but Floyd Sweet did have many ideas on different machines. Its important to note one was a Motor Generator with big expensive Neo Magnets. I believe this is where these ideas came in. 

You can read more here on the Images above: Update 11-10-13

The Sawtooth Waveform is the Goal. I have a little more info coming soon.

   Chris

getreal156 posted this 13 June 2019

Hello Cris

I just signed up at AO and first would like to say " thank you so much !! " for all this wonderful information. Really really helpful.

I'm working on the AO topic for quite some years now, but thanks to your lead, for the first time, I reached a real and significant result with my coils. I'm not going to tell the (crazy) results yet because I first need to double and triple check before I make a total fool of myself.
By trade I'm a mechanical engineer and play with electronics as a hobby. I'm not a beginner but the chances are that I overlook basic things or make stupid mistakes. Happened too many times already I simply don't have the theoretical electronics background and that shows some times.

So my question is basically about how to measure current using the scope. I'm struggling with measuring my coils output (over 1Ohm resistors) due to the fact that the scope is actually earth grounded. It is killing or disturbing the system. Maybe I will have to isolate it from earth ground or maybe switch to sensing coils. Not sure how to proceed. I'm currently using multimeters which is far from accurate

Do you maybe have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance and regards,

Jasper

Chris posted this 13 June 2019

Hi Jasper,

Welcome! Thanks for your kind words!

The Power Cord for the Scope, you can cut off the Earthing Pin:

 

Note: It is possible that the Scope can be damaged without an Earthing Pin, so care and also awareness must be realised. Proceed at your own risk.

You can also power your scopes through a Battery powered Inverter, each scope.

Of course a Ground short is still possible, so a technique must be devised to measure one side ( Input ) then the other ( Output ), or use two Scopes.

Use Precision Resistors. 1 Ohm Resistors can be quite different. A 10% or even a 5% Resistor can make a big difference on measurements.

I have given you a Thread: How to Measure Power - AC, of course, Pulsed DC is similar, use Mean or Average and make sure the Probe Multiplier is correct. DC is then V x I for mean DC Measurements.

I am glad to hear you're getting really good results.

   Chris

getreal156 posted this 14 June 2019

Hi Cris,

Thanks. I think I will go ahead with insulating from ground. I already started with looking at how to build a precision shunt resistor.

Maybe also an option to get some current clamps. No idea how expensive they are.

It is too much of a mess on my bench right now so later I will share some some more details on my experiments

Regards,

Jasper

Vidura posted this 14 June 2019

Hi Jasper and welcome.
here some suggestions for your measurements: a cheap solution for precision resistors is to use 2w metalfilm resistors and parallel various of them ,for example 10 units of 10ohm for a 20w 1 ohm resistor. for the scope grounding issue the simplest way will be to measure each channel separate, or of course the current clamp probes. If you need to find the phase angle  between the channels without absolute values you can put a toroidal inductor on the probes and pass the wire for measurement thru the centerhole. the toroid has to be selected according to the working frequency, you can check with a signal generator if the distortion in certain range is acceptable. And be not afraid of failure, we can learn from any experience, and including very knowledgeable engineers make mistakes.

I hope some of this helps, I'm  looking foreward to see your work.

Vidura

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getreal156 posted this 15 June 2019

Hi Vindura,

Thanks for your advice.

I was looking at fine tuning of metal strips but of course your suggestion is much much easier and should be accurate enough. I actually have every thing lying around so that will save a lot of time. I use resistors in parallel all the time to lower the overall resistance but forgot that also the accuracy is increasing. Thanks for reminding me!

To look at phase angles I'm already doing some thing like you are suggesting. I'm connecting the probe ground clip to the probe tip and creating the loop in that way.

I'm busy and traveling right now so I will post details of my experiments some time later.

Thanks again!

Jasper

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The great Nikola Tesla:

Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by a power obtainable at any point of the universe. This idea is not novel. Men have been led to it long ago go by instinct or reason. It has been expressed in many ways, and in many places, in the history of old and new. We find it in the delightful myth of Antheus, who drives power from the earth; we find it among the subtle speculations of one of your splendid mathematicians, and in many hints and statements of thinkers of the present time. Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic? If static, our hopes are in vain; if kinetic - and this we know it is for certain - then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature.

Experiments With Alternate Currents Of High Potential And High Frequency (February 1892).

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